Btw, here is an example of sean-nos singing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvus7IFyFMA
One of the most interesting things that occurred during my ethnography was the comparisons of what people perceived as Traditional Irish Music. One of my interview's referenced Daniel O'Donnell, which is one of the people I mentioned during my presentation. Here is a youtube video of him (aka NOT Trad. Irish Music...)
Daniel O'Donnell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_KmYHaf58Q
Another mentioned the Dubliners: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eOIU9ekSMk
One example of the Traditional Irish Song/Singing I was thinking/aiming for was (this is actually a performance on a stage):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX6njBlHxUQ
So I quickly found a bit of a disparity between what I was looking at and speaking about as Traditional Irish Song and what those of my interviews viewed as Traditional Irish Music. One thing that was interesting was 2 of my interview subjects relating the pub musicians to a rehearsal. One mentioned keeping the song in your repertoire and not just for the purpose of performing it once, and another lead to the idea that they expect a "performance" after the pub and that the pub can serve as a rehearsal.
Overall I've found this research project really interesting. There
are many factors I never really thought of that could influence a person
or a change a persons mind when listening to a song. I've always been
really "attracted" you could say to Traditional Irish Music, and
especially song, but I've never really looked into why that might be or
why is it I find a song to mean/have value for myself. Looking into
factors such as the environment (concert hall vs. pub), the singers
voice, the singers choices/technique (vibrato, ornamentation, changing
lyrics...etc.), the start & finish of the song, lyrics, melody,
accompaniment etc. all influence people differently when listening to a
song.
I don't have a set conclusion for my research, as defining "meaning" to a person isn't really a black and white answer. My results vary A LOT. My Gran expressed at one point in the interview how things should be kept traditional, and then after describing a traditaionl song and a singer with an example I asked what she thought about a band playing that song...or for instance her idea of a traditional Irish Singer Daniel O'Donnell and his backup band and she expressed that she liked it and considered it still as being traditional. She considered this traditional although stated that the song can't be changed or else it's no longer authentic or original. So the question begs that are these efforts in setting, performance context, and the addition of accompaniment not considered as changing the song itself? For her, her answer was no, and it didn't effect the meaning either. She felt just as connected and as much meaning from the song if it was in a theatre. Other interviews I had expressed that changes like these no longer made them feel as much of a personal connection and changed the experience for them which also then changed the meaning of the song for them.
I think that in my research a huge "flaw" or idea that should have
ben further or explored, or maybe could be another ethnography in itself
is what people consider Traditional Irish Song to be and why?
Some questions to ask yourself, could be much like the one above, and also what factors and changes within music like I described of environment (concert hall vs. pub), the singers voice, the singers choices/technique (vibrato, ornamentation, changing lyrics...etc.), the start & finish of the song, lyrics, melody, accompaniment etc. effect a song's meaning for you? And what do these changes do to the song? Why do these changes matter?
Here are some extra links and things from my presentation for those of you that are interested.
I didn't have this on a slide but here is the link to the Folk Song
Society of San Diego. I searched their site and found some events
locally (I went to a Sunday Song Circle):
http://www.meetup.com/SDFSS-ORG/
Here is a video & site to the group I saw perform at a house
concert called Brog Crua (they have a FB if you wanna check it out as
well):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj1i220twGY
http://www.reverbnation.com/brogcrua
Here are also some other really great artists to look into for Irish song (in my opinion):
Joe Heany
Muireann Nic Amhlaoibh (She sings the recording of "The Parting Glass" I played)
Susan McKeown
Magart Barry (She sings the recording of "The Flower of Sweet Strabane")
Mick Hanly
John Doyle (he also writes his own stuff)
Karen Casey
Sarah Makem
Roisin White
Niamh Parsons
These are just a few....
Two good bands to look into and maybe compare works done by a singer listed above, and with a band are Danu & Dervish.
It's interesting how you brought up the question of how certain types of changes in a song might change the meaning of it. I had never thought of this before, which is strange because I did my project on folk music today, and there are definitely the types of changes you described.
ReplyDeleteI think that by adding certain types of ornamentation or changing the performance setting (concert hall vs pub) one perceives that the intention of performing the song might have changed. Like you described these types of songs are supposed to be stories, but if someone fancies them up I think they are taking away from the function of telling a story and instead displaying skill or status of a performer (if you are playing in a concert hall you are probably perceived more seriously than if singing at a pub).
I think it's funny how the people you interviewed seemed to have a different conception of what traditional Irish music is than you do. I agree with you that, had we more time, it would have been pretty interesting to look into this disparity. I listened to the link of Daniel O'Donnell and couldn't listen for more than 30 seconds haha. It is quite different than the other link you put up. There seemed to be a theme though that ran through many presentations and that is the idea of "traditional" versus "new" or "progressive" and how one would draw the line between these (or if it is even necessary to). It would be interesting to look into for Irish music as well since you showed that the recordings are different, the pub singer left out (or just forgot) some lines, and many are fine with the idea of a band.
ReplyDeleteI thought that the idea of the setting of a performance was an interesting one. What really caught my attention was the point you brought up of the singer literally asking for everyone to quiet down so that he could sing. I'm sure that many other patrons at the bar had similar thoughts to yours (as I would) and weren't quite focused on the performance itself. Clearly, there is a sort of protocol on how to perform at a pub such as this one. Either he wasn't familiar with it or didn't trust the system (i.e. didn't believe people would quiet down).
ReplyDeleteI honestly had no idea that this was some type of custom to begin with. If I had been at the pub, I probably would have rolled my eyes at the performer and carried on with whatever it was I was doing. At the same time, if a different performer (one with talent that followed protocol) got everyone to quiet down, I'm sure I would have too, despite being confused and a bit disoriented. I actually look forward to having a pint there, possibly next week.
I really wish I could have been there for your presentation, but I had to take off early...
ReplyDeleteIn regards to the different views on traditionalism by your interlocutors, I always find that it really is dependent on the interlocutor and how much they know about the tradition: its history, the development, techniques, and many others. And, as you've mentioned the concept of what should remain traditional or untouched and what they view as traditional can conflict, making it very hard to analyze at times.
What I found really intriguing is that some view the pub sessions as rehearsals for a more formal performance setting. If I had not taken Ben's MUS111 and learned about the functions of the session, I would have assumed that the session would be a very low key performance or maybe even a rehearsal. I think the closest thing to "performance" would be the a capella singing of one person, as the power of it can quiet down the entire pub, and that focuses all of the attention onto the singer making it seem very much like a performance.
I wish I had taken an interest in traditional Irish music sooner..I never really knew people who were all that familiar with it therefore it never really captured my interest as it has now. I'm sad to say that my idea of Irish music has largely been constructed by PBS pledge drives selling CDs for Celtic Women or Michael Flatley...who's from CHICAGO.
ReplyDeleteYour presentation was very interesting, particularly your indignation at that one guy's gall to ask everybody to be quiet so they could hear him sing. Coming from the Western Art Music tradition, I would have thought it only natural that he'd want everybody to shut it before he performed, but I can see where you are coming from, especially as a member of the tradition. I wish you & Ben could have performed some Irish music for us (apart from Ben's pipe 'demo' before class)!
The distinction between what makes a performance traditional or non-traditional really is a very fine line. A fine zigzag line. It seems what one accepts is also based partially on individual bias, rather than a strict guideline that dictates what aspects are considered traditional. For so many people to have different views on what is traditional must relate in some way to what they themselves enjoy. Like Megan was saying, many of our presentations had some sort of focus on traditional versus new. There is this clash between preserving the past and moving forward into the future that seems to cause identity crises amongst many musical styles.
ReplyDeleteAwesome presentation! Traditional Irish music was something I was never able to quite grasp, as in differentiate between what would be considered traditional and would not (I know really bad!). I also found it interesting how when a band rehearses, the pub continues on as normal, but when someone starts to sing it quiets down (sometimes), is that because the person it telling a story? Or that it is more respectful to quite for a singer, over a band rehearsing?
ReplyDeleteI found your point that many different factors influence the listeners to be both interesting and relatable to my project as well. One of the first things I set out to do was to identify what exactly the "jazz culture" was. What I found, though, is that jazz culture is different at different times. It all depends on who's playing it, who's listening to it, where it's being performed, etc. Essentially, as the context changes, so does the culture itself. I think this notion can be applied to your project as well. You mentioned that the concept of traditional Irish Music changed from listener to listener--maybe this is due to the fact that it is difficult to define exactly what is traditional and what is not. Is it the song itself or is it the style with which it's performed?
ReplyDeleteI loved how you were honest about how surprised you were by him asking people to be quiet. Since I have not studied Irish music at all, I would not have known any of the protocol. It's amazing not following it can totally change the experience for a listener/performer. A recent performance I played in, the concertmaster did not stand to greet the conductor. One of the other performers said she was embarrassed after and felt like the performance had been a waste because of it.
ReplyDeleteYou also said that you could also hear someone feeding the singer the words. Have you seen him there since? I am curious if it has happened again.
I think it would be really interesting to hear more about the song circle tradition in Irish music. From the sound of it there are a few similarities between a bluegrass jam and the song circle, but there are obviously a lot of differences that are brought about by the purposes and meanings behind the two traditions. I think for the most part traditional Irish songs have a lot more history and meaning than most of the songs that are normally played at a bluegrass jam, which features a mostly upbeat or comedic air in general and the occasional murder ballad. I know that some of the tunes bluegrass musicians play are based on traditional Irish tunes and I'd like to research more about the influences in bluegrass from the Irish tradition.
ReplyDelete