Final Presentation Post

Today I did my final presentation on Traditional Irish Song & Meaning and before I sum my experience up there are a few points I think I didn't make all to clear during my presentation. I intended to do an ethnography on sean-nos ("Old Style") traditional Irish song, however I found it difficult to find both listeners and individuals who sing sean-nos song. I turned my ethnography to traditional Irish songs that weren't that of sean-nos but did include sean-nos techniques such as nasalization, free rhythm, ornamentation, no set dynamics, and little to no vibrato. Also I talked about an awkward moment when someone at the pub I went to (The Ould Sod) decided to sing a song but first announced it to the pub and asked everyone to be quiet before hand. What I should have also included was why this was awkward...the reason why I was a bit confused as to why he had done that (it's possible he didn't think the pub would quiet for him to sing) is because in a pub people are carrying on their business chatting & drinking, and usually when someone wants to sing a song, the person would just start singing and the pub would quiet down to listen. By announcing it the guy could have been a sign of reassurance and control to get the pub to be quiet in case they didn't already do so. By doing this I believe it also puts a focus on the performer that was not yet there.

Btw, here is an example of sean-nos singing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvus7IFyFMA

One of the most interesting things that occurred during my ethnography was the comparisons of what people perceived as Traditional Irish Music. One of my interview's referenced Daniel O'Donnell, which is one of the people I mentioned during my presentation. Here is a youtube video of him (aka NOT Trad. Irish Music...)

Daniel O'Donnell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_KmYHaf58Q

Another mentioned the Dubliners: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eOIU9ekSMk

One example of the Traditional Irish Song/Singing I was thinking/aiming for was (this is actually a performance on a stage):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX6njBlHxUQ

So I quickly found a bit of a disparity between what I was looking at and speaking about as Traditional Irish Song and what those of my interviews viewed as Traditional Irish Music. One thing that was interesting was 2 of my interview subjects relating the pub musicians to a rehearsal. One mentioned keeping the song in your repertoire and not just for the purpose of performing it once, and another lead to the idea that they expect a "performance" after the pub and that the pub can serve as a rehearsal.

Overall I've found this research project really interesting. There are many factors I never really thought of that could influence a person or a change a persons mind when listening to a song. I've always been really "attracted" you could say to Traditional Irish Music, and especially song, but I've never really looked into why that might be or why is it I find a song to mean/have value for myself. Looking into factors such as the environment (concert hall vs. pub), the singers voice, the singers choices/technique (vibrato, ornamentation, changing lyrics...etc.), the start & finish of the song, lyrics, melody, accompaniment etc. all influence people differently when listening to a song.

I don't have a set conclusion for my research, as defining "meaning" to a person isn't really a black and white answer. My results vary A LOT. My Gran expressed at one point in the interview how things should be kept traditional, and then after describing a traditaionl song and a singer with an example I asked what she thought about a band playing that song...or for instance her idea of a traditional Irish Singer Daniel O'Donnell and his backup band and she expressed that she liked it and considered it still as being traditional. She considered this traditional although stated that the song can't be changed or else it's no longer authentic or original. So the question begs that are these efforts in setting, performance context, and the addition of accompaniment not considered as changing the song itself? For her, her answer was no, and it didn't effect the meaning either. She felt just as connected and as much meaning from the song if it was in a theatre. Other interviews I had expressed that changes like these no longer made them feel as much of a personal connection and changed the experience for them which also then changed the meaning of the song for them.

I think that in my research a huge "flaw" or idea that should have ben further or explored, or maybe could be another ethnography in itself is what people consider Traditional Irish Song to be and why?

Some questions to ask yourself, could be much like the one above, and also what factors and changes within music like I described of environment (concert hall vs. pub), the singers voice, the singers choices/technique (vibrato, ornamentation, changing lyrics...etc.), the start & finish of the song, lyrics, melody, accompaniment etc. effect a song's meaning for you? And what do these changes do to the song? Why do these changes matter?

Here are some extra links and things from my presentation for those of you that are interested.

I didn't have this on a slide but here is the link to the Folk Song Society of San Diego. I searched their site and found some events locally (I went to a Sunday Song Circle):

http://www.meetup.com/SDFSS-ORG/

Here is a video & site to the group I saw perform at a house concert called Brog Crua (they have a FB if you wanna check it out as well):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj1i220twGY

http://www.reverbnation.com/brogcrua

Here are also some other really great artists to look into for Irish song (in my opinion):

Joe Heany

Muireann Nic Amhlaoibh (She sings the recording of "The Parting Glass" I played)

Susan McKeown

Magart Barry (She sings the recording of "The Flower of Sweet Strabane")

Mick Hanly

John Doyle (he also writes his own stuff)

Karen Casey

Sarah Makem

Roisin White

Niamh Parsons

These are just a few....

Two good bands to look into and maybe compare works done by a singer listed above, and with a band are Danu & Dervish.

Font from Interviews

I apologize for these horrible eye sores of font problems from transferring over my interview notes from word...highlighting helps :)

Interview #4 Michele

Interview w/Michele (listener of Irish Music) - (6.2.13)

This is another interview in which I asked a friend of mine from the listeners perspective a few questions (the same I have used in the past interviews) about meaning and Traditional Song. The questions I asked were:
1) Do you have any experience with Traditional Irish song?
2) When you hear Irish song/music does it make you feel a type of ownership/stronger cultural identity? 
3) How would you define tradition/traditional? 
4) Does the tone of someones voice matter to you when listening to the sing? Would it effect the meaning of the song to you? 
5) Do you think you connect more withe the lyrics or the melody/harmony & why? 
6) Irish Traditional song is usually sang with one person, how do you feel about it being used in a different setting such as in a band? 
7) Pub singing vs. performance/concert hall - does the performance and different aspects of it change the meaning for you personally? and if so why?

So Michele and I had our interview somewhat informally via FB chat where it started off as a regular conversation and then at first I informally asked her a few things but then eventually it turned into the list of questions, here are some of her answers:

1. yes, I was first exposed in Canada in a pub called Tir na Nog. Fell in love with the sound. Bought a couple CDs and found an online site that plays celtic music that I listened to while stuck in my little cubicle.

2. I have absolutely no Irish blood, but the sound makes me yearn to go somewhere where such beautiful sounds are created and more importantly valued.'

3. Tradition is something that is done every year around a certain time. It can be formal as in Poland on Christmas Eve dinner we break the oplatek (wierd styrofoamy wafer - its gross) and tell our family members we love them, or informal as in my mother always prepares her ham and green beans for Thanksgiving

4.Yes very much so. I cannot stand strong vibrato and it will very quickly ruin a song. It will almost certainly make me dislike the artist but if I heard the same song by a different singer I don't know that it would be ruined by the previous one.

5. I connect more with the melody because that is what I sing. I have always wanted to get into the harmony but I don't have the natural ear for it and when I was in chorus they refused to let me in the harmony section because they needed my strong voice for the melody. Go figure. I still really want to learn it and do occasionally try to pick it out. I will say that if there is a piece that has spectacular harmony during a certain part of the song I am drawn to that section more than others.

6.I was first introduced to in it a band type setting with 4 guys, one being the main singer but the others contributing as well as playing instruments.

7. I prefer the informal aspect of the pub. In my musical career I never enjoyed performances but I loved rehearsal, especially when a piece could be played through. I was always extremely sad that we never revisited a piece after the concert. I like the idea that a song is always in your repertoire and just because you have performed it doesn't mean you never get to play it again.

One thing I found really interesting about this interview was especially in the part when she connected the pub to a rehearsal. This made me wonder if to her (I’ve also come across this answer before from other people) and to some others that because of the setting being more informal than that of a conert type performance that there is less stress and pressure on the performer in a sense, or that there is an end goal after the pub to “perform”, the pub players are not “performing/performers”, or if the connection was made to rehearsal because of factors such as the audience and the fact that in the pub you are not playing music solely for the audience is the reason for the connection for some between that of pub playing & a rehearsal?

Interview #3 Conor

Interview w/Conor (5.28.13)

Today I did an interview with an old friend of mine who's family I know feels very connected to their Irish heritage and listens & travels to Ireland quite often. In this interview I asked a set of questions via FB message. The questions asked were:

1) Do you have any experience with Traditional Irish song? 
2) When you hear Irish song/music does it make you feel a type of ownership/stronger cultural identity? 
3) How would you define tradition/traditional? 
4) Does the tone of someones voice matter to you when listening to the sing? Would it effect the meaning of the song to you? 
5) Do you think you connect more withe the lyrics or the melody/harmony & why? 
6) Irish Traditional song is usually sang with one person, how do you feel about it being used in a different setting such as in a band? 
7) Pub singing vs. performance/concert hall - does the performance and different aspects of it change the meaning for you personally? and if so why?

Here are some of his responses:

1) I do, I have listened extensively to irish folk music both here and in Ireland

2) I dont feel any particular cultural identity listening to Irish traditional music, as I believe it goes beyond borders. The themes are cross cultural and universal, and everybody can identify with the struggles and triumphs invovled

3) Traditional music is constantly changing. The songs are passed down and appropriated by successive generations, each one making the songs their own, although in a way they stay the same. Traditional songs are inherently timeless

4) Tones are important in the way songs are perceived. Emotion can definitely be expressed through the tone of someones voice

5)Id say I connect with the lyrics. They have always been the most important element in a song for me. Not just the words themselves but the way they are sung as well

6) I enjoy irish music in a band setting. The dubliners, for instance, manage to play a wide array of traditional irish songs in a large band format

7) pub singing will always be the ideal medium for trad irish musicians to perform their stuff. The informality and ambiance allow them to experiment and work with musicians from all different walks of life. This is where songs get created and passed down.

its best for the audiences too because they can participate

Interview #1 Listener

Interview w/Listener (5.9.13) @ The Ould Sod Pub

During a night at the pub (The Ould Sod) I interviewed one of my friends who learns Irish Traditional Folk Songs from time to time. We were first having a regular conversation about the session going on with mostly tunes being played until one guy stood up and decided to sing a song. I took some notes after asking her questions of her perception of it and what else we spoke about. I also then emailed her a few more questions because I felt like I hadn't covered enough and was curious about a few more things.

In the email I asked some more direct questions rather than  how I approached the pub where it was pretty informal and we just chatted. These were some of the questions I was curious about:

1) Do you have any experience with Traditional Irish song? 
2) When you hear Irish song/music does it make you feel a type of ownership/stronger cultural identity?
3) How would you define tradition/traditional? 
4) Does the tone of someones voice matter to you when listening to the sing? Would it effect the meaning of the song to you? 
5) Do you think you connect more withe the lyrics or the melody/harmony & why? 
6) Irish Traditional song is usually sang with one person, how do you feel about it being used in a different setting such as in a band? 
7) Pub singing vs. performance/concert hall - does the performance and different aspects of it change the meaning for you personally? and if so why?

Here are some of her responses:

2) When you hear Irish song/music does it make you feel a type of

ownership/stronger cultural identity?

Yes and No.  My cultural heritage is a mixture of Norwegian, Italian,
Scottish, Irish, and English.  So I feel somewhat connected to my heritage
when I sing or hear the music, but I think I almost use the cultural
aspect as an explanation for why I like Irish music.  Like, I can't figure
out what I like about it, so I just assume it is because it is in my
heritage.  If that makes sense.

3) How would you define tradition/traditional?

I think of a tradition as something that has been cultivated over many
generations and handed down.  I think that traditions change and adapt to
different periods of history or function differently in different eras
without losing their "traditional"-ness.

4) Does the tone of someones voice matter to you when listening to the
sing? Would it effect the meaning of the song to you?

Yes, I don't know if it effects the meaning.  I think it is more  of a
sonic preference.  I actually don't like the more nasal Irish singers, the
sound gets too pointed and harsh for me.

5) Do you think you connect more withe the lyrics or the melody/harmony &
why?

Generally I won't like a song unless I connect with the song lyrics, but
in Irish music, I love the melody lines so much I sometimes care less
about the song lyrics.  Maybe this is because many Irish songs are
stories, so I feel like I can listen to many types of stories without
having to fully connect with every part of them.

6) Irish Traditional song is usually sang with one person, how do you feel
about it being used in a different setting such as in a band?

I am actually fine with the songs being presented in different settings.
I think it is important to know that they were originally sang solo and to
make a distinction between the more traditional way and then the newer way
that they are being performed.  It is interesting to me that the songs can
have harmony added to them fairly easily...like the harmony is implied yet
it isn't normally performed with accompaniment.  It makes we wonder if
there was accompaniment (like a band or something) a really long time ago
and that was lost somehow.  (I have no historical backing for my musings
whatsoever...)

7) Pub singing vs. performance/concert hall - does the performance and
different aspects of it change the meaning for you personally? and if so
why?

I think that when a song is being performed in a concert hall it changes
the dynamics of the experience.  Instead of a casual sharing of a song, it
becomes a performance, which leads to expectations of standards such as
staying in tune, executing ornaments well, remembering to sing all the
verses...it is a lot more pressure.  And it puts the focus on aspects of
singing that could take away from the story-telling/sharing aspect of the
songs.  I guess I don't think it changes the meaning of the song, but it
might distract from the meaning.

Here is The Ould Sod's website for those of you interested in going. Sessions are on Tuesday nights, and you must be 21 to get in! http://www.theouldsod.com/

Interview #2: Gran Greer

I did an interview with my Grandmother ("Gran") over the phone while I took some notes typing. I decided to approach my interviews differently all depending on the person, so for this interview we simply just had a normal conversation and I made sure to hit a few points, and then went back and organized a bit of the conversation into different areas of interest. 

Interview w/Gran (5.15.13)

[Notes recorded on the computer/word document while on the phone]

Interview w/Gran

Calls it “folk music”, and references Daniel O’Donnell. She describes going to a pub in Ireland and hearing someone sing a song at a session. While someone was singing it was mostly quiet apart from a few people, but a lot of people were singing along with the singer.

Irish Heritage: Her great great Gran was the first (of her knowledge) to come from Ireland to Scotland. Some of her family was from Ballymena Ireland in County Antrim in North Ireland. When she went to visit Ireland she went back to Ballymena to visit. Her grandmother was a child when they arrived in Scotland, she remembers her Gran singing to herself in the kitchen.

Performance & Meaning: She can go to the theatre and listen to singers singing, and can go to the pub and listen and sing along with them. But she can’t do this in the theatre, however the song has the same meaning for her. Song isn’t just something that you sing but it becomes more than the performance for someone else (listening), it becomes more personal. “It’s important that these countries with folk music should know about the folk music of their country and the songs of their country and that people recognize it.”

She sings and hums a part of a song with “Have you ever been across the sea to Ireland”…”When the sun goes down on Galyway bay”, “When Irish eyes are smiling”…

How did you learn them/why: Learned the song just because she’s heard them and liked the “tune”. A lot of Irish music sung in Scotland & brought over with them and then are later passed down through generations…people come over during the famine.

What about the song is meaningful/what makes it meaningful: Gets most of the meaning from lyrics of the songs.

 “most songs put together for the story…maybe not for the songs this modern day in age”

“If you listen to the words you can understand the life of that person or the story of the time”

What about the person’s voice/singer: The meaning behind the song doesn't change with the singer, but the view on the singer can…

Performance: When the song is taken out of the traditional setting and is performed for an audience something about the song changes, the focus of the song changes. It’s no longer authentic. It should stick to being sung the traditional way. Don’t change the traditional song to much or else it’s not traditional. She wouldn't want to listen anymore and wants to be able to sing along. Keep it “original”.

Transcription: Writing it down & changing it makes it no longer traditional. But just writing it is fine. Transcription is good because it lets more people learn it. Helps preserve the music and spread the music from country to country and keep it going and alive.

 “Could go into a place and listen to the other side of music, but there are many people who make such a huge difference between catholic and protestant, religions in Ireland and the different parts of the country, and causes trouble like the Rangers and Celtics in Scotland, people can’t seem to understand it’s not important, enjoy music of both sides”

These ideas and environment “Changes the enjoyment”

Experiences make the songs mean more to you.

After papa (my grandfather) died couldn't play music because it upset her because he use to play songs when he came home. (Old American song) all of things bring particular memories for particular people. One was a love song he would sing when he came home from being away at sea, “Just remember I love you…”

Held a large meaning, couldn't listen to them because he use to always play it to her – strong sentiment.  “…and although you’ll miss me have a wonderful time, but remember darling you’ll always be mine”.

Singing about your country makes you proud, has an attachment. Longing to be connected with that culture…

Start to think of your own country and the folk/people you belong to…a sense of belonging. Older people know their background and have a yearning from where their inheritance came from. She always wanted to go to Ireland when had never been but she went for that yearning.

Update Entry

So I've been if not the worst, then one of the worst at updating this Blog with my research and instead have been hoarding my notes in a small notebook. Hopefully some people will get to look over some of this information I have collected and see a bit of the progress I have made on my efforts in doing an ethnography.